Does it matter where your frame is made?

Disclaimer: i wrote this awhile ago and haven’t looked at it since. I am just pressing “publish” since I’ll never stop editing it. Take it for my thoughts at a certain point in time, it’s a blog afterall…

I’ve been asked why I don’t keep the business going by getting frames made in Taiwan. It’s a good question and can be a sensitive subject. I’ve been editing this for awhile now, changing it each time i come back to it, it may always be a work in progress. I’m not against bikes (or anything) being made in countries with a lower cost of living, cheaper labor costs, and fewer environmental regulations. It’s why we can have a lot of nice things that make life more comfortable and convenient at lower prices than if the things were made locally. As far as bikes go, I don’t think that high quality frames can only be made one at a time by a small domestic framebuilder. But I do think what you get are different products. I’ll try to explain. These thoughts are mine, you don’t have to agree, but if I get anything wrong please let me know.

But honestly just the idea of me not building the bikes is hard to get past. I would have trouble letting go of the fabrication and that ownership of the product. After all, that’s why i started making frames in the first place – to build! Without that connection to the bike and the customer is it’s a different thing and I’m not sure it would still be a Meriwether.

Taiwan has it dialed.

Taiwan has been the bicycle manufacturing hub of the world since the 70’s when there was a surge in demand for bikes. The resulting desire for US companies to find lower costs and scaleable production increased beyond domestic capabilities. That ship has sailed and it’s not coming back no matter how high tariffs get. I don’t know if the cost of living is that much lower in Taiwan, but that combined with 1) greater efficiencies in production 2) lower material costs from having everything made in such a small area of the country and sometimes on site, and 3) much higher order quantity of a frame’s tubes and dropouts which allows them to make bikes that much cheaper, they simply have it dialed and can outproduce any domestic facility at a fraction of the price. If you need or want more information on this check out YangMFG’s YouTube videos and this article by Cjell Mone’. Yang MFG visits Ora Engineering & Maxway Cycles. I asked our AI overlords how Taiwan can build at a fraction of the cost and this is what it had to say, “Taiwan isn’t simply “cheaper”—it’s optimized for bicycle production in a way the U.S. is not. The combination of supply-chain density, workforce specialization, large-volume production, and lower operating costs produces dramatically lower per-unit costs.”

More and more small builders that want to start a bike company are leveraging this manufacturing juggernaut to try and have a go. While this can take a chunk of startup cash – design work, travel costs, upfront tooling costs, and meeting a minimum frame order – Taiwan can build, paint, and ship frame for less than I pay for powdercoating a frame and fork. Let that sink in…

Builders that go this route no longer need to build frames themselves so become full-time customer service agents, bicycle designers, prototypers, marketing directors, complete bike builders and shippers, maybe hire employees, as well as all the other things that keep the business rolling. I entirely respect this path, it’s what so many of the OG’s did decades ago so it’s not new. Tom Ritchey made more bikes than most small builders ever will and still couldn’t keep up with demand so outsourced production. More than frames, Ritchey realized the need for all the components that weren’t available at the time. Same with Bontrager. I don’t know when and why they stopped making frames but they both successfully switched gears and became hugely successful businesses. What feels new is a healthy and deserved respect for the Taiwan building community and a recognition that the bikes made there can be top notch. While I don’t understand how they charge what they charge, I’m a fan of what I see in the recent videos and articles that have come out about these companies and their manufacturing.

The other option.

When you buy a frame or bike from a “domestic framebuilder” it’s a different product than if you buy from a company that outsources production. I’m not just referring to US made frames because there are small builders all over the world that don’t live in the United States. I understand that not everyone can afford custom, or even a stock frame made domestically by a framebuilder, but we have credit cards for a reason and if you’re reading this you it’s likely have more than one bike. I strongly encourage everyone to experience getting a bike from a small builder at least once. It’s not that you need custom fit or geometry, or won’t love a bike built in Taiwan, you can make a pretty “custom” bike using the parts you’ve been lusting after for years and it’ll be something unique and memorable. But I’m arguing a custom bike will ride better and you’ll be more satisfied in the bike after working through the details with the builder because it’s built for you, and not overbuilt for the average person in your height range.

It used to be that some styles of bike weren’t able to be made at such a small scale but now you can find small builders making almost anything under the sun, from 3D printed titanium frames and forks to carbon fiber DH bikes to electric cargo tandems with a sidecar. There are more resources open to anyone willing to learn (or hire someone to design in) CAD software. You can have printed or machined parts arrive within a week or two of designing. The ability of small builders to pivot and design and build new things in a short time period is still unmatched. But unlike in Taiwan, framebuilding resources in the US are spread out geographically and the cost of materials and labor is much higher. This is not a judgement call, we made it this way, and not just for bikes but for everything we buy. No matter who is president or what legislation is passed, we enjoy the consumer life this allows too much to change it entirely, but for some products it makes sense to buy locally and readily available. As a whole, we choose to buy less expensive bikes more frequently because we can, or are persuaded we need to, and can afford to do so because they are cheaper. There is the option to pay more for fewer bikes and I guarantee you’ll want to keep those bikes around for longer making the net cost lower.

Continuity Matters.

When your frame is built by a person that rides the bikes they build and completes the entire process themselves, there is less likelihood of oversight and compounding errors. I’ll use myself as an example. When someone reached out to get a bike we spent a lot of time talking or emailing about their history in cycling, what they currently ride, where they ride, how they ride, and what they plan to do with the new bike. An idea of the bike came to life and a drawing was created. Versions went back and forth until a final version was reached. Sometimes that would be version 1, but more often it would be several versions later. Even with my stock model i shared a few drawings to show what their desired frame size, as well a size bigger and smaller, would look like with their saddle height. This provided a visual aid to help them cement their frame size choice. They could measure their current favorite bike and see how the fit compared which would help choose stem length and rise and if they wanted to request a semi-custom frame instead. The customer talked to me: the builder of the frame, fork, and the person ordering the parts to build the complete bike. I would see the whole process through – from the first email to boxing it up to ship. This isn’t the most efficient business model, but it’s very effective and what a lot of small builders do. They develop a personal connection through this conversation in designing and building their customer’s new bike. Small builders trade efficiency for the ability to work from home and make their own hours. This may be beneficial or required for their home life – they may have young kids or animals to care for, their partner may have an office job with less flexibility, or the builder is working another job and working on frames when there’s time leftover. A few small framebuilders have employees that help with the different parts of the process, trading time for a new frame and the lessons learned along the way. Some builders open up their shop to show where the magic happens and get out on a bike ride while taking the opportunity to measure the customer’s current bike and its contact points. There’s a relationship that’s unique to the small builder market. (Cue Portlandia episode…). But know this: no one is getting rich off framebuilding no matter how much they charge. I bet most are making less than minimum wage.

Getting back to continuity in the process, the small builder knows how the bike is supposed to be built and ridden so any design errors can be fixed along the way before it’s too late. Issues like a misplaced cable guide or boss isn’t a problem on one frame but can be a costly pain in the ass for a batch of frames. An un-reamed seat tube that doesn’t allow full insertion of a dropper post is an easy fix but not if the frames are already shipped and being built for customers. Using the wrong diameter seat tube for dropper posts because the factory was just following the drawing and not thinking about what the bike was intended to do can limit the usability and desirability of a batch of frames. The fabricators are not to blame, they’re just working on one part of a picture when making a frame, over and over and over again, they are just doing the job in front of them not needing to think about the big picture. 

The framebuilder’s ecosystem.

When you buy a bike from a small builder you’re not just supporting that business and the person or people that work there, you’re also supporting an ecosystem of supplier small businesses and the people they employ. In the US alone there are several small businesses that were created for and by small framebuilders that rely on the survival of their businesses. These include Paragon Machine Works, Arctos, Sputnik Tools, Cobra Framebuilding, Bicycle Fabrication Supply, Metal Guru, Framebuilder Supply, First Hand Framebuilding, and previously Nova Cycle Works, Anvil Bikeworks, Henry James, Joe Bringheli, True Temper, & Variwall. I’m sure I’ve left some out but that’s already quite a few. If no one bought from small builders these businesses would also cease to exist.

“Strong, light, cheap. Pick two.“

Keith Bontrager’s famous proverb still holds. A frame is made up of various sized tubes, a pair of dropouts, one or another standard of head tube and bottom bracket shell, cable guides, bottle bosses, and sometimes rack mounts and fender eyelets. Each of those things is made somewhere for the builder to buy, or in a few cases make themselves. There is a lot of marketing that goes on related to tubing choice. I’m not trying to throw shade on anyone when i say this but it’s important for people to know what they’re getting and to set realistic expectations not clouded by marketing hype. In terms of a steel, it’s unlikely you’ll feel the difference between a frame made with Columbus, Dedacciai, Tange, or Reynolds tubing (if they all had the same diameter tubes and butting profiles, and ignoring the different alloys and their respective strengths). But it’s likely you’d notice the difference between a bike made for the average 5’ 8” person and a custom frame made for that same person. Each builder will adjust tube diameters and butt profiles to best match the desired ride quality. They’ll know how light they can go while still making a strong frame, but it isn’t going to be cheap. Custom isn’t just about how the bike looks, it’s about the cooperative process that combines the vision of the customer and the expertise and creativity of the builder. The ability of the framebuilder to choose tubing diameter, wall thicknesses, and butt lengths for the given rider is one very important distinction that is unique to custom frames.

What about the builders?

This may surprise some but there are no guilds for bicycle framebuilders. We don’t have to pass any tests or get a degree to sell bikes. Most are not engineers, machinists, or certified welders. There are very few framebuilding courses, and for several years now the main organization that provided classes in all facets of production (United Bicycle Institute) canceled those classes. Even if a person took a two week long class, there is a lot of practice and learning that will be done before they sell frames. They need to buy liability insurance to protect themselves and their customers. There should be some math on how much they need to make on each frame after costs of materials, and a business plan showing what separates them from the hundreds of others trying the same thing. What’s the plan for branding and marketing to distinguish themselves from the flock?

This also may surprise you but there is no governing body for custom framebuilders and there is no requirement to submit frames for destructive testing. In most cases testing wouldn’t be practical or even useful because no two frames are alike. It’s prohibitively expensive for a small builder to make a frame and pay to have it destroyed, you may even need to supply more than one frame. While I have heard that bike companies can opt-out of pass/fail testing in Taiwan, you must take on that liability yourself, so they may adjust their designs after receiving test results just to be safe. This may mean beefing up the frame to pass testing – bigger diameter or thicker wall tubing, adding gussets, or changing the initial design. This is another important distinction that relates back to Bontrager’s proverb: making a bike stronger to pass destructive testing will likely make it heavier and change the ride quality of the bike, no longer behaving like the prototype. I imagine failure (pass/fail) testing provides preferred peace of mind, but is it limiting what designers can build with no real world testing? I’ve personally owned several large scale production frames and forks over my lifetime and I can say without a doubt that they were heavier and rode worse than any frame I’ve built myself, but they were a lot less expensive. And there’s the rub: would a Ponderosa made in Taiwan built to pass their tests ride the same as one built by me?

But in the end you choose the bike that fits your budget and gets as close to what you want as possible. Just know there’s a different path available, one that fosters the local economy and potentially creates a bike you’ll keep for the rest of your life. It is more than a bike, it’s a connection to the builder, a fun learning process that involves you in co-creating your next adventure buddy. The monetary pain will be temporary and soon forgotten.

Further reading:

Radavist Dust-Up: Should brands clearly classify bicycles with ISO or ASTM testing?

A journey into Frame Stiffness by Jan Heine

Bicycle Frame Design: Frame tubing and thickness

Bruce Gordon: Steel vs. Steel

Bob Brown Cycles: Engineering, etc.

Ibis Cycles: Metallurgy for Cyclists